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M.2 /mSATA SSD Options.

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Michael Miller
Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
in UP Squared Hardware Specification
So, assuming the UP Squared maintains the M.2 2230 and mPCI-e slots in it's final form. It would be nice to have some idea what SSD's will be compatible with them. From what I have seen, m.2 2230 SSD's are limited, although OCZ has shown a "BG line" m.2 2230 that goes up to 512GB, but I can't seem to find any info on if it is available or where it get it (it is intended for OEM's, perhaps UP could carry them in their shop?) other then that there are some small ~32GB ones I have seen. For mPCI-e/mSATA, Samsung has their EVO series among others, but with all the various specifications it is tricky to know what is compatible.
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  • Aling
    Aling Guest Posts: 561 admin
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    In UP Squared, we use M.2 2230 E key, it can only be used for WiFi/ Bluetooth, not for storage.
    For mPCI-e, you can choose any full size mSATA in the market, we are going to test a few and sell in the shop. What capacity will be desired? 128GB/256GB? We notice 512GB price is a way too expensive.
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
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    Ahh, I see. As to desired sizes, 128/256 sounds good. Offers a decent upgrade for those wanting a bit more space and speed over the on board eMMC without breaking the bank. If it's possible to at least test larger more expensive drives just to know if they are compatible but not necessarily offered in the shop?
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
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    On a somewhat related note, is the mPCIe able to accept something like this:
    http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PM2.html
    to allow full size PCIe cards to be used?
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  • Aling
    Aling Guest Posts: 561 admin
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    Spec seems ok, but you know everything has to be tested. :-)
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  • Eric
    Eric New Member Posts: 29 ✭
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    I see the PCIe is x1 wide. Will it work with NVMe SSD's? I'm not sure that would require x4 bandwith, or whether the x1 means x4 SSD's won't work. Can you elaborate a bit?
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
    edited February 2017
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    I can't speak officially, and obviously it would need to be tested, but typically a PCIe x2/x4/x8/x16 will function on a 1x interface, but at PCIe v2.0 x1 speed (500MB/s) an NVME SSD might be pointless.

    Edit: note SATA3 is 600MB/s and these speeds are "ideals" that are not always met. While there are some optimizations with NVME that might give it an edge, it would be much more simple to just get a SATA 3 SSD.
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  • Phil
    Phil New Member Posts: 5 ✭
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    Hello,

    I would be interested in fast internal storage (I know you were mentioning extensions here) too, something that would be 128 Gb and above.
    I have come across a technology that's being developped at the moment and could be ready to be manufactured as early as 2018. It's called ReRAM. The chip would be SiOx based and should therefore be rather cheap. It's power consumption should be a lot less that Flash.
    Have you heard of it? I think this would be the perfect thing for single-boards.
    If anyone is interested, i published a video on my YouTube channel Fi2Pro about it here: https://youtu.be/SsFvB7uHAMM
    All links to relevant published materials about it are in the video description. I really look forward to these chips being on the market.

    My bests,
    Fi2 n Co
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  • Mialaret
    Mialaret New Member Posts: 33 ✭
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    AlingWu wrote:
    For mPCI-e, you can choose any full size mSATA in the market, we are going to test a few and sell in the shop. What capacity will be desired? 128GB/256GB? We notice 512GB price is a way too expensive.

    According to Wikipedia:
    Despite sharing the Mini PCI Express form factor, an mSATA slot is not necessarily electrically compatible with Mini PCI Express. For this reason, only certain notebooks are compatible with mSATA drives.

    Have you tested mSata drives that are compatible with the Up Square ?
    Can you give a few recommendations ?
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  • DCleri
    DCleri Administrator, AAEON Posts: 1,213 admin
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    Hello

    On UP Squared we tested an industrial grade drive from ADATA AXM21ES3 series which comes with SATA3 interface over miniPCIE (mSATA).
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
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    I ordered a Samsung EVO 850 256GB mSATA drive, ill let you know if it works.
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  • Mialaret
    Mialaret New Member Posts: 33 ✭
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    Tbird Man wrote:
    I ordered a Samsung EVO 850 256GB mSATA drive, ill let you know if it works.

    Have you received the SSD ? Does it work ?
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
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    I will be picking it up after work at 5:30. Ill post my results then.
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  • Mialaret
    Mialaret New Member Posts: 33 ✭
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    Great. I think an SSD is the best way for multi-OS installation. One on eMMC and two on the SSD.
    I want to test W10, W10 IoT Core and Ubuntu.
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
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    I can confirm, the Samsung 850 mSATA SSD works, you have to switch the mPCIe port from mPCIe to mSATA in bios though.
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  • Robert Shelton
    Robert Shelton New Member Posts: 110 ✭
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    Hi @Tbird what OS are you using? I have installed the same model but am on Win10. I have switched from PCI-e to mSATA in the bios setup; and have confirmed that setting saved properly. I don't "see" my new drive; but I do have driver-not-found errors being thrown for PCI-e in Device Manager.
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
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    I have used it under Win 10 and Ubuntu. Have you formatted the drive? Open Disk Management and see if you see an unallocated drive there.
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  • Robert Shelton
    Robert Shelton New Member Posts: 110 ✭
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    It was a user problem... I realized after a bit that I'd not used Disk Management. Went in, found the raw drive, formatted; and it's working fine. I forgot to update the post, though. Thanks for following up!!
    Robert
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  • David Rolfe
    David Rolfe New Member Posts: 98 ✭
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    Hi,

    I thought this thread could do with a bit of a 'bump', as I wondered if there are any 'official' recommendations from the UP team yet as to which readily obtainable mSATA drives are suitable to use with the miniPCIE port on the UP squared.

    As mentioned earlier it would appear that not all mSATA drives are fully compatible, and it would be good to have an 'approved' list before the new board starts shipping.

    Thanks!
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  • WereCatf
    WereCatf New Member Posts: 201 ✭
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    I don't see anything in the thread indicating that "not all mSATA drives are fully compatible."
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  • David Rolfe
    David Rolfe New Member Posts: 98 ✭
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    That was the way I read the earlier Post #4678 from Cedric.
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
    edited July 2017
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    Cedric was referencing a more general idea with mPCIe vs mSATA. Basically, not all motherboards with mPCIe slots also bring mSATA signals to the slot, so there are some motherboards where no mSATA drive would work. in the case of UP Squared, as long as you set the port config in the BIOS to mSATA, to my knowledge any mSATA drive should work.
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  • Mark Bradley
    Mark Bradley New Member Posts: 6 ✭
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    What I'd like to know is if something like the following would work. It's a mini PCI express expander with micro-SIM, micro-SD 2.0 Flash Card, and USB 2.0 host expansion capabilities. It's $35 USD + shipping so not a big deal to try.

    GW16103_Top.png

    http://www.gateworks.com/product/item/ventana-gw16103-expansion-adapter

    I'd like to use it with a cellular mini PCI board since it's got the SIM slot on it. The micro-SD is a bonus since the eMMC doesn't work (for me) with a recent FreeBSD version.

    Ideally, I'd like to use both a cellular card and proper mSATA (for data logging) but I know I have to choose mSATA or mini PCIE... That's also why the micro SD is promising.
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
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    It should work, but the speed of that sd slot is gonna be a problem. What about a full SATA ssd on the SATA III header? Or a SATA to mSATA or m.2 adaptor?
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  • Mark Bradley
    Mark Bradley New Member Posts: 6 ✭
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    I'd use the SATA III connector if the JST power connector was easy to source. If anyone knows where to get that power connector then please share! Even using a 1.8" SSD would be a nice size reduction (and I have them around).

    A SATA Disk On Module would have been ideal, too.

    As for the M.2, I wasn't aware that the M.2 could accept SSD. Even if it was via an adaptor, I thought it was wired in some way to only allow WiFi/Bluetooth.
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
    edited September 2017
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    The sata power is 2.0mm JST.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JG1KBCA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_tHYTzbGB1WFAH

    For reference the fan and rtc battery are 1.25mm jst.

    And ypu are correct the m.2 cannot except an m.2 ssd, however there are SATA to m.2 converters.
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  • Michael Miller
    Michael Miller New Member Posts: 95 ✭
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    If you buy those prewired pigtails, pay close attention to polarity. You may have to swap the wires around.
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  • WereCatf
    WereCatf New Member Posts: 201 ✭
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    bradl001 wrote:
    If anyone knows where to get that power connector then please share!

    They sell them on the UP-shop: https://up-shop.org/up-peripherals/108-sata-cable-for-up-squared.html
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  • Mark Bradley
    Mark Bradley New Member Posts: 6 ✭
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    I'll order the same part that @WereCatf mentioned from Mouser.com with reasonable shipping costs within the USA. Since I'm impatient, I'll scrounge around for a 2.0 mm JST and an old SATA power connector and hook them up to test.

    http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=RE-UPSATAPACK01virtualkey64090000virtualkey409-RE-UPSATAPACK01

    Thanks!
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  • LemmingOverlord
    LemmingOverlord New Member Posts: 10 ✭
    edited January 2018
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    I'm considering buying the UP squared (N4200, 8GB, 64GB eMMC) for a DIY NAS project. However, I'd like to know if anyone has had any experience with SATA port multipliers.

    The SATA port on the Up squared is SATA 3, but I'd like to know if you can use a SATA Port multiplier (similar to the one described here: https://sata-io.org/developers/sata-ecosystem/port-multipliers)

    So using the integrated host controller on the chipset/platform controller hub, would the UP Squared be able to manage 4-5 drives using a port multiplier? (with a separate power source for the hard drives, of course)

    If so, this would knock the socks off my Netgear NAS.

    Also, does anyone use RAMdisks and have you measured performance for services such as Kodi or Plex?

    Thanks in advance!

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  • roddines
    roddines New Member Posts: 9 ✭
    edited April 2018
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    This might be useful for a small NAS
    http://www.sybausa.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=945

    4 Port SATA III Mini PCI-e Controller Card
    SI-MPE40125
    Part Number: SI-MPE40125 Brand: IOCrest

    Compatible with PCI-E Mini Card specification revision 1.2
Compliant with Serial ATA Specification 3.1
Supports communication speeds of 6.0 Gbps, 3.0 Gbps, and 1.5 Gbps
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