Windows 10 IoT Core OS Status and Issues

2

Comments

  • Eric
    Eric New Member Posts: 29
    I don't have UP because I can't be sure it actually works.

    So just please test it and report here.
  • Eric
    Eric New Member Posts: 29
    Have you been able to use devcon to install Intel graphics drivers?
  • cvaky
    cvaky New Member Posts: 1
    Anybody already have tested a Windows ioT core on Up Board?
    I am really interested for Up Board, just need to have working Windows IoT for it.
  • Sergei
    Sergei New Member Posts: 2
    edited January 2017
    danbuche wrote:
    In reply to the question "How do I actually get Windows 10 IoT onto the UP Board"
    Hello, i have some questions to your how-to steps 2,3:
    do i need to install windows x86 first?
    i have generated a flash.ffu file using IoTCoreShell.cmd (options - x86 platform) - will it fit to my up board?
    is it really OK to use MBM .ffu file? it seems, each *.ffu file should be suitable to its own hardware. or is it just platform-dependent?
  • Victor Lai
    Victor Lai AAEON Posts: 5 mod
    No need to install windows x86 first.

    For Win10 IoT core, suggest to wait for UP2 to use it.

    Due to Cherry Trail CPU on UP is now extend longevity to 2020, there maybe chance for Intel/Microsoft to reconsider support Win10 IoT Core. We will keep the community updated if any changes. At this moment, please use UP2 for it. We will provide the win10 IoT Core when ready.
  • Diego Bonura
    Diego Bonura New Member Posts: 3
    Actually they have remove the explicit text about Windows IoT on main UP2 specification page. They now just wrote: The compatibility with Linux, Android, and all the Windows 10 distributions give you great flexibility, scalability and quick time to market.

    So i think it is not so clear about IoT support. I hope yes but an official replay could be great!
  • Aling
    Aling Guest Posts: 561 admin
    UP --> No Windows IoT Core support because of Intel and Microsoft's commercial arrangement.
    UP Squared --> Support Windows IoT Core. Based on Intel's plan, Intel and Microsoft will support IoT Core on Apollo lake, therefore we will also implement it on UP Squared. The goal is to provide the free version IoT Core image in UP community.
  • seeteeyou
    seeteeyou New Member Posts: 1
    AlingWu wrote:
    UP --> No Windows IoT Core support because of Intel and Microsoft's commercial arrangement.
    UP Squared --> Support Windows IoT Core. Based on Intel's plan, Intel and Microsoft will support IoT Core on Apollo lake, therefore we will also implement it on UP Squared. The goal is to provide the free version IoT Core image in UP community.
    Fool me once, shame on you.

    Fool me twice, shame on me.

    Why would anyone still claim that Cherry Trail could be any good for supporting Windows IoT Core?

    https://web.archive.org/web/20170605100556/http://www.up-board.org/upcore/specifications-upcore/
    bdmmWIy.png

    Is it yet another bait and switch as usual? Bait us with marketing fluff and then switch to "Oh, no love for IoT Core anymore because M$ wouldn't provide any support" afterwards.

    If there were no commitment from M$ whatsoever, please just admit it simply because there will be no financial incentives to provide support for Cherry Trail.For UP Squared, maybe it's just easier to wait for MinnowBoard 3 (with Apollo Lake) to be shipped this fall and then once again "borrow" that flash.ffu image again?

    Actually why don't we simply wait until this fall and then buy something that's officially supported by M$ instead?

    Thank you very much and have a great day.
  • Aling
    Aling Guest Posts: 561 admin
    We've removed Windows IoT Core on Cherry Trail ( UP board) for a long while, when we got official notification from Intel and Microsoft that there was no plan to support it. Though recently we heard there could be some change, however, we will keep it for a while until we see some official update.

    For Windows IoT Core for Apollo Lake ( UP Squared), it is in Intel and Microsoft official support list. Microsoft has got one UP Squared and did porting on it. Our team is still working with Microsoft to get full understanding ab[video][/video]out the image we received. Once we have clear picture, we will update soon. Thanks!
  • Eric
    Eric New Member Posts: 29
    Any news about IoT Core support on UP Squared yet?
  • Aling
    Aling Guest Posts: 561 admin
    Thanks for asking. We have been working on Windows IoT Core on UP Squared for a while.

    At this moment, we have installed Windows IoT Core on UP Squared, however, we are still working on drivers of 40-pins such asI2C ,PWM,UART. For GPIO, the driver is ready.
    In addition we don't have experience in Windows IoT Core app. So now we are working with Microsoft to get some demo app, so that we can show the community that the OS is working.

    If we have any Windows IoT Core experts in UP community, please raise your hand. We will be happy to have some suggestion from you or provide the image for you to test.
  • Shaun Tonstad
    Shaun Tonstad New Member Posts: 1
    Hi AlingWu --

    Thank you for the status update. I am interested to know more about your progress with Windows IOT Core. I can help test for you -- my app requires GPU acceleration for DirectX. Based on progress with device drivers, is this a capability in the current build?
  • Eric
    Eric New Member Posts: 29
    Great to see this is finally coming!

    Would be great if you automate the image creation such that it is easy to offer new downloads when a new Insider Preview or a new OS release becomes available.

    I believe drivers and any other components should also be offered such that makers can build their own image as they see fit.

    Just tag each image offered for download with some release notes and a (beta) version number and keep us posted here of the progress you're making. If it works, its useful. Even if not perfect, as long as you communicate what it exactly is you offer for download.
  • Aling
    Aling Guest Posts: 561 admin
    Hi stonstad, Eric,

    Thanks for your feedback. We just successfully installed IoT Core signage app on UP Squared . Next week we will show you the video.
    We would like to release the beta version to UP community, so that you can try it out. In the meanwhile, we can keep working on the remaining functionalities.
    Like Erik mentioned, we need to have clear documentation, otherwise it is going to be painful to Community to try.

    I will come back soon for the beta image release schedule.
  • Eric
    Eric New Member Posts: 29
    Am I correct that building an image no longer requires an MSDN Subscription?

    If that's true, it looks like you can just offer the .sys .inf and .cat files from the Windows 10 drivers download? For Serial I/O otoh they are in a subfolder. For Intel INF they're hidden but you should have a way to get them at least. Then they can be installed with DISM or whatever, factory install.

    Or don't these work on IoT Core? Video? Audio? Those drivers are behemoths. Totally unsuitable for IoT core, at least how they're packed.

    I'm looking at the 249 KB The Raspberry Pi BSP for reference. Obviously I didn't test using it, but it appears I can now get all the downloads listed here.
  • Marek Sliwa
    Marek Sliwa New Member Posts: 4
    Any news on this? I'd like to order the board but first need to know if the graphics driver supports full hardware acceleration and if the fTPM works under Windows IoT Core. Thanks!
  •  Connor Early
    Connor Early New Member Posts: 20
    Hi, I have a lot of Windows 10 IoT experience and I have just received my Up Squared board. I'm really excited to get Windows 10 IoT running on this guy, so let me know whatever I can do to help make that happen as soon as possible!
  • Aling
    Aling Guest Posts: 561 admin
    To install Windows IoT Core, you will need to update BIOS to v2.1.
    We are about to release the beta version..( sorry for keep saying....it's almost there". )
    Our team is reviewing the final documentation to make sure users can follow it easily.
  •  Connor Early
    Connor Early New Member Posts: 20
    When running dism I get an error 0x80004005. When looking at the log file,

    Error DISM Imaging Provider: PID=1056 TID=1008 "Could not get the VHD provider." - CGenericImagingManager::InternalCmdFFUApply(hr:0x80004005).

    Do you have a workaround for this?
  •  Connor Early
    Connor Early New Member Posts: 20
    When running dism I get an error 0x80004005. When looking at the log file,

    Error DISM Imaging Provider: PID=1056 TID=1008 "Could not get the VHD provider." - CGenericImagingManager::InternalCmdFFUApply(hr:0x80004005).

    Do you have a workaround for this?
  • NoelStephens
    NoelStephens New Member Posts: 25
    If you still need someone to test your Windows IoT Core build, then I would be happy to assist. We have an internal software application (yet to be public) that accesses several I2C devices with lots of reads and writes for various purposes. It is a UWP application and tested on Windows IoT Core running a R-PI3 and is completely stable.
    Since it appears there is no I2C support for *ANY* windows platform currently (the AAEON framework/drivers only work with GPIO on Windows 10 x64 and Windows Server 2016 x64) I would be more than happy to not only test but help debug any I2C issues you are having if it will expedite any version of Windows to support I2C.
    I was about to flash my up2board to the 32bit bios but then realized I needed the ability to install the Windows IoT Core version for the UpBoard which requires either the FFU image or the BSP to build and image...so if you want someone to test for you let me know!
  • Tanya Snyder
    Tanya Snyder New Member Posts: 1
    Any update on this? We would like to use the PWM on the 40 pin of the UP Squared - we are running Win10 IoT Enterprise. Is there a driver available for this?

    Thanks.
  •  Connor Early
    Connor Early New Member Posts: 20
    edited October 2017
    danbuche wrote:
    Dear Aaeon team,

    first off, I've verified that if you actually go in and follow Eric's steps, you can very well create a nicely running image for IoT core if you work off the back of the MBM image. Using devcon thereafter also allows to install a good bunch of the drivers that are needed to make the device work.

    What would need to be done from here is that someone would need to go and create CAB files for the drivers required inside the board. This has nothing really to do with any agreement between Microsoft and Intel, but rather something that the manufacturer of the UP Board would want to do.

    In principle, the drivers only need to be working to the extent that they work on a standard Windows 10 x86 installation - the only difference of the IoT version is that IoT doesn't have a desktop UI.

    If you guys were to provide us with signed driver CAB files, then we as makers could easily incorporate them into our custom ffu images. Kindly provide those, after this we can manage ourselves.

    Thanks,
    Daniel

    Hi, I've tried doing what Daniel mentioned. I got my Windows 10 IoT Minnowboard image running on the Up Board. Now, I figured that I could just use the drivers available at the download center here. I installed the GPIO one using devcon like you mentioned, but it's still returning null on GpioController.GetDefault() in Windows IoT. Anyone else have any luck?
  • NoelStephens
    NoelStephens New Member Posts: 25
    Well, I know that when I first read about the Up Board it was touted as compatible with Windows 10 (which also included Windows IoT Core).
    Having to build your own image (while possible and some do it) and assure the drivers are "all correct" for the entire board (Up or Up^2 or etc.) is not really "compatible". While the argument "could be made" that Windows 10 boots and runs, it defeats the purpose if you can't access all of the expected/typical devices (especially I2C...this is *huge* in IoT development world) without having to jump through hoops, comb through all forums to find "odd ball links to sort-of put together SDKs on some person's dropbox account", and things of this nature...in other words...since Up Board products are made with the "IoT Builder/Developer" in mind, it is a bit misleading to say you work on the following platforms (include list of Linux, Windows 10, etc) when in fact you don't really fully support Windows 10 because all you can do with any Up Board product line under Windows 10 is evidently change the state of the GPIO pins...

    So, for putting so much processing power on such a small board...and then limiting it to only be able to turn something "on or off"... is kind of pointless in my personal opinion...as most individual's who got this board are using some form of I2C device in their project...and the only ones who actually are *moving forward* with their project are the ones who chose Linux (or some offshoot there of) as their development platform. If I was going to use Linux...then there are many other boards I might have gone with than the Up Board...because our product line is based around Windows 10 and Microsoft SDK's/Libs.

    The *biggest* attraction, in our eyes, for this board was the fact that it was "claimed" to run under Windows 10. With the way it was being "advertised" one would assume they had all "IoT Relevant Devices (i.e. GPIO and I2C at a minimum) working with some form of driver, whether optimized or not, and SDK that provided access to said devices (again...didn't have to be perfect...just working) so developers could actually develop projects with the Up Board on Windows 10.

    The truth of the matter is that while the Up Board "boots and runs" Windows 10 (and Windows Server 2016), the I2C device drivers have *never worked* under any iteration of Windows 10 or Windows Server 2016 (x86 or x64)... which again... going back to the *whole point* behind the board is to develop some form of "IoT like device"...which has been impossible since the board has *first shipped* up until this very day.

    I was going to flash the BIOS to the 32 bit version and see if Windows IoT Core actually could access the I2C device on the UpBoard, but now after reading that we might have to hunt down more drivers, build our own IoT Core image, and then it might work?

    Had the board for almost 9 months now and it just sits in a box on the shelf...because we can't really do anything with it since our project depends upon I2C communication. We currently use RPI3s and might look into some other "SOC small form factor intel based boards" and just add a USB to I2C controller on it and be done with it (if I had gone down this path 9 months ago we would have been done with the Winx64 version of our product and it would be close to the same size as the UpBoard with the exception of the added USB to I2C device attached.

    Since I2C evidently works under all other operating systems, I can only hope that they post a fix sooner than later for the x64 Windows 10 drivers, BIOS, or both.

    While this is a "kickstarter" originated project, AAEON (ASUS) is contributing to this project heavily, and as such I would have expected them to "jump all over this"...because even now...if they can fix this issue with Windows 10 and I2C ...they will be the smallest, intel based, IoT Device that can run 64bit next gen Windows on the planet...(thought that would have inspired a fix much sooner than now).

    Anyway, IoT Development is hard enough as it is...the whole "attraction" (at least for us) was that we could move away from building OS images and focus primarily on the product...but with the support this board has been given towards Windows 10 thus far...

    Well...let's see if they fix this before end of this year... if not... then most likely I will have moved on to some other board...cause this has been just a ridiculously
    long wait to get "basic functionality" from what was advertised as "Working/Compatible".

    You know?
  • NoelStephens
    NoelStephens New Member Posts: 25
    Regarding getting Windows 10 IoT Core running and GPIO.
    Did you flash your UpBoard with the 32 bit BIOS?
    If not, before you go down that path, did you try to install Windows 10 x64 and then use the x64 drivers (AAEON drivers and DLL from DIO example)? I got the GPIO working using this configuration almost immediately when I got the board and last week I thought updating to the early 2017 BIOS release (was running a later 2016 version) would solve my I2C issue... the update didn't solve the I2C issue but I verified the GPIO was still working after I flashed it.
    Note: I ran across a weird keyboard buffer error that caused constant carriage returns after a period of time (making entering in the commands to select the right bios impossible. What I did was:
    1.) Created a folder (BIOS) on a USB memory stick with nothing on it and copied all BIOS update files there.
    2.) Created a new start.nsh file in the root folder of the USB memory stick that contained:
    fs1:
    cd BIOS
    afuefix64.efi UPC1BM0X.BIN /P /B /N /L
    3.) When I booted to the EUFI menu and got the first prompt I quickly typed in:
    fs1:
    (hit tab to get the first file "start.nsh" and hit enter)
    4.) Let it apply the BIOS update

    This was the only way I could get past the keyboard buffer input bug that occurs about 30-60 seconds after getting a shell prompt.

    If all you need is GPIO, then just using W10x64, the x64 drivers, and the DIO example source should get you moving forward.
  • Eric
    Eric New Member Posts: 29
    Win10 is not what I want. I want IoT core. Windows 10 full drivers just don't work. And if they would, they are still unsuitable. Look at Intel GFX. Its huge. 90% of that is in fact apps for Desktop and Win32 Control Panel plugins and whatnot. It just doesn't fit.

    Its been 5 weeks since AAEON commented on this. I'd say time for an update.

    Please, AAEON?
  • Eric
    Eric New Member Posts: 29
    AlingWu wrote:
    Hi stonstad, Eric,

    Thanks for your feedback. We just successfully installed IoT Core signage app on UP Squared . Next week we will show you the video.
    We would like to release the beta version to UP community, so that you can try it out. In the meanwhile, we can keep working on the remaining functionalities.
    Like Erik mentioned, we need to have clear documentation, otherwise it is going to be painful to Community to try.

    I will come back soon for the beta image release schedule.

    Is this video and the beta image release schedule available somewhere now? Where?
  •  Connor Early
    Connor Early New Member Posts: 20
    GCore wrote:
    Regarding getting Windows 10 IoT Core running and GPIO.
    Did you flash your UpBoard with the 32 bit BIOS?
    If not, before you go down that path, did you try to install Windows 10 x64 and then use the x64 drivers (AAEON drivers and DLL from DIO example)? I got the GPIO working using this configuration almost immediately when I got the board and last week I thought updating to the early 2017 BIOS release (was running a later 2016 version) would solve my I2C issue... the update didn't solve the I2C issue but I verified the GPIO was still working after I flashed it.
    Note: I ran across a weird keyboard buffer error that caused constant carriage returns after a period of time (making entering in the commands to select the right bios impossible. What I did was:
    1.) Created a folder (BIOS) on a USB memory stick with nothing on it and copied all BIOS update files there.
    2.) Created a new start.nsh file in the root folder of the USB memory stick that contained:
    fs1:
    cd BIOS
    afuefix64.efi UPC1BM0X.BIN /P /B /N /L
    3.) When I booted to the EUFI menu and got the first prompt I quickly typed in:
    fs1:
    (hit tab to get the first file "start.nsh" and hit enter)
    4.) Let it apply the BIOS update

    This was the only way I could get past the keyboard buffer input bug that occurs about 30-60 seconds after getting a shell prompt.

    If all you need is GPIO, then just using W10x64, the x64 drivers, and the DIO example source should get you moving forward.

    Hmmm, yeah I have tried both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows and had no luck with either of those either. Maybe I should just try again and see what I can do.
  • Eric Spijk
    Eric Spijk New Member Posts: 4
    Dear all,

    Did someone notice the release of Intel creating a BSP Intel® Pentium® /Celeron® Processor Family Platforms N3000 and
    Intel Atom® x5-E8000 Processor.
    I've tried to create an image, but the built is failing.

    https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/products/braswell/software-and-drivers.html

    See Board Support Packages, Link "Board Support Package for Intel Atom® Processor Windows* 10 IoT Core 32-bit and 64-bit Platforms"

    Cheers! Eric
  • Eric Spijk
    Eric Spijk New Member Posts: 4
    Dear all,

    Did someone notice the relase of Intel creating BSP for Intel® Pentium® /Celeron® Processor Family Platforms N3000 and
    Intel Atom® x5-E8000 Processor?
    Package is available here: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/embedded/products/braswell/software-and-drivers.html
    I was not successfull, the build is failing in the last step.

    Cheers! Eric